Comments on: Space: in the palm of our hand, or just out of reach? – 1.32 http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/ Making Space Commonplace Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:02:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: automotive jacks http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/#comment-235 automotive jacks Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:52:48 +0000 http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=593#comment-235 I have to say, that I can not agree with you in 100%, but it's just my IMHO, which indeed could be very wrong. p.s. You have a very good template for your blog. Where did you find it? I have to say, that I can not agree with you in 100%, but it’s just my IMHO, which indeed could be very wrong.
p.s. You have a very good template for your blog. Where did you find it?

]]> By: Gonz http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/#comment-234 Gonz Sun, 07 Dec 2008 20:44:04 +0000 http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=593#comment-234 So basically in the big picture space travel is in its awkward teenage years. It's going to grow and people like the ones Ben mentioned are going to shape <i>how</i> it grows. Weather they beat NASA to the moon or not private space flight will eventually surpass them. Maybe that is where America will get a kick in the pants to spark a larger interest. It just takes patience? So basically in the big picture space travel is in its awkward teenage years. It’s going to grow and people like the ones Ben mentioned are going to shape how it grows. Weather they beat NASA to the moon or not private space flight will eventually surpass them. Maybe that is where America will get a kick in the pants to spark a larger interest. It just takes patience?

]]> By: Bencredible http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/#comment-233 Bencredible Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:26:11 +0000 http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=593#comment-233 JJ it does take a special kind of person. At first people laughed at electricity, cars, telephones, and most modern technology that we take for granted today. Space travel will be no different, but the common person won't see the advantage until it is well down its own path. There are some today who see the vision: Richard Branson, John Carmac and Peter Diamandis just to name a few. The question is, much much difference can these people make? As far as I know none of them have any plans of sending humans to the moon or on to Mars. Robots are nice and give us very valuable data, but there is something about sending humans to the unknown that is just so much richer. And that brings us back to NASA. For now at least. With the speed in which private space travels, they could beat NASA to the moon by 10 years or more! JJ it does take a special kind of person. At first people laughed at electricity, cars, telephones, and most modern technology that we take for granted today. Space travel will be no different, but the common person won’t see the advantage until it is well down its own path.

There are some today who see the vision: Richard Branson, John Carmac and Peter Diamandis just to name a few. The question is, much much difference can these people make? As far as I know none of them have any plans of sending humans to the moon or on to Mars. Robots are nice and give us very valuable data, but there is something about sending humans to the unknown that is just so much richer.

And that brings us back to NASA. For now at least. With the speed in which private space travels, they could beat NASA to the moon by 10 years or more!

]]> By: JJ Biggins http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/#comment-232 JJ Biggins Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:39:20 +0000 http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=593#comment-232 Many inventions were marvels for a decade or so. Consider the telephone, so grand now its sort of passay. When they went to the Moon it sure was a ruch, and then once they achieved that goal, the people can no longer have such joy in that goal because it was already achieved. The Space Shuttle was a huge rush, even the test flight on back of the 737 jet, then the launch some time later. Some say "when your bored with something, then things must be gooing alright"... in that there in some comfort or satisfactory mode. Say theres money to be made doing something in space and watch the horde grab it, like a miner for gold. Our lives are filled with so much to do, from food on the table to jobs. Space is still in our minds, but now is becoming complacent, or accepted as a part of life. What can the common man do with space? It takes a special kind of man on the shoulders of these common men to get there. Many inventions were marvels for a decade or so. Consider the telephone, so grand now its sort of passay. When they went to the Moon it sure was a ruch, and then once they achieved that goal, the people can no longer have such joy in that goal because it was already achieved. The Space Shuttle was a huge rush, even the test flight on back of the 737 jet, then the launch some time later. Some say “when your bored with something, then things must be gooing alright”… in that there in some comfort or satisfactory mode. Say theres money to be made doing something in space and watch the horde grab it, like a miner for gold. Our lives are filled with so much to do, from food on the table to jobs. Space is still in our minds, but now is becoming complacent, or accepted as a part of life. What can the common man do with space? It takes a special kind of man on the shoulders of these common men to get there.

]]> By: Rick Boozer http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/#comment-231 Rick Boozer Sun, 07 Dec 2008 00:18:39 +0000 http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=593#comment-231 One other note of clarification. The commercial launch vehicles that could be used for the rendezvous, docking etc scenario are upper-end Atlas, Delta, or the upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 heavy. I wasn't talking about any of the current private suborbital contenders. I know NASA administrator Griffin said it would be unsafe to use these boosters for manned flight (contradicting testimony that Griffin himself gave to Congress before he got himself so thoroughly ensconced in the stick concept - see: http://spacefrontier.org/node/42), but other analyses suggest otherwise. In fact, Elon Musk has stated that from the very beginning that he intended for the SpaceX Dragon spacecraft / Falcon 9 booster combination to be manned flight capable long before he applied for NASA COTS funding! One other note of clarification. The commercial launch vehicles that could be used for the rendezvous, docking etc scenario are upper-end Atlas, Delta, or the upcoming SpaceX Falcon 9 heavy. I wasn’t talking about any of the current private suborbital contenders. I know NASA administrator Griffin said it would be unsafe to use these boosters for manned flight (contradicting testimony that Griffin himself gave to Congress before he got himself so thoroughly ensconced in the stick concept – see: http://spacefrontier.org/node/42), but other analyses suggest otherwise. In fact, Elon Musk has stated that from the very beginning that he intended for the SpaceX Dragon spacecraft / Falcon 9 booster combination to be manned flight capable long before he applied for NASA COTS funding!

]]> By: Rick Boozer http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/#comment-230 Rick Boozer Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:15:06 +0000 http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=593#comment-230 When I said “ala COTS” I too was talking about NASA getting to the Moon, but by sponsoring private development of such a mission. I and many other people do not believe a super expensive heavy lift vehicle such as the Ares V is needed, assuming such techniques as in-orbit rendezvous and docking and/or an orbital fuel depot are used. The people who share my opinion say that the goal should not be just to return to the Moon via an extremely costly “Apollo on steroids”, but to maximize the amount of traffic between the Earth and moon by making the trip cheaper. Apollo worked because it was just about getting to the moon and not keeping a sustained presence there. The expense of achieving the goals of Apollo was not even an afterthought. If Ares lunar flights cost as much (adjusted for inflation) as they did during the Apollo program, we won’t be able to afford becoming a true spacefaring nation. Instead of NASA sending just a few flights to the moon per X amount of dollars with Ares V, they could have a greater number of flights for the same or less money. When I said “ala COTS” I too was talking about NASA getting to the Moon, but by sponsoring private development of such a mission. I and many other people do not believe a super expensive heavy lift vehicle such as the Ares V is needed, assuming such techniques as in-orbit rendezvous and docking and/or an orbital fuel depot are used.

The people who share my opinion say that the goal should not be just to return to the Moon via an extremely costly “Apollo on steroids”, but to maximize the amount of traffic between the Earth and moon by making the trip cheaper. Apollo worked because it was just about getting to the moon and not keeping a sustained presence there. The expense of achieving the goals of Apollo was not even an afterthought. If Ares lunar flights cost as much (adjusted for inflation) as they did during the Apollo program, we won’t be able to afford becoming a true spacefaring nation. Instead of NASA sending just a few flights to the moon per X amount of dollars with Ares V, they could have a greater number of flights for the same or less money.

]]> By: Bencredible http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/#comment-229 Bencredible Sat, 06 Dec 2008 19:08:36 +0000 http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=593#comment-229 Rick, good points. Keep in mind that we're HUGE fans of private travel, but at this point the only organization I see that really has a moon shot is NASA. That could change quickly in the private sector, but NASA simply has resources that they don't. I do believe that Constellation will get off the ground. With the Obama administration promising 2 Billion more to NASA I think it will be entirely possible. I guess we have seen so much marketing and so many aspects of the vehicle being built that it looks real. A lot more real than the XCOR vehicle which I believe is still just a real rocket and a spacecraft on paper alone. Rick, good points.

Keep in mind that we’re HUGE fans of private travel, but at this point the only organization I see that really has a moon shot is NASA. That could change quickly in the private sector, but NASA simply has resources that they don’t.

I do believe that Constellation will get off the ground. With the Obama administration promising 2 Billion more to NASA I think it will be entirely possible.

I guess we have seen so much marketing and so many aspects of the vehicle being built that it looks real. A lot more real than the XCOR vehicle which I believe is still just a real rocket and a spacecraft on paper alone.

]]> By: Rick Boozer http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/#comment-228 Rick Boozer Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:34:38 +0000 http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=593#comment-228 Guys, I’m a fan of SpaceVidCast, but I think there’s a little too much optimism vis-à-vis Ares I and Ares V. You seem sure that these vehicles are going to get developed. I don’t think so. A large selling point of going with “the stick” was to save money by utilizing existing shuttle technology, but the vehicle has been changed so much that there are few common parts between the original shuttle solid fuel booster and Ares I. They’ve even had to add weight in the form of anti-vibration mechanisms that would not need to be as heavy and robust on a liquid fueled booster. To counter the added weight they’ve now added another booster segment! All of this stuff is causing the project to go way over budget. They are even considering cutting crew capacity in the spacecraft to cut costs incurred by the added weight. They might as well have developed a new vehicle starting with a blank sheet of paper! This turkey is going to be tweaked into oblivion. In regard to developing a new heavy-lift vehicle in the Saturn V class. The only reason why NASA was able to afford development of such a vehicle in the 60s was a virtually unlimited budget due to the Cold War. That’s not the case this time around. As I have mentioned on Clark Lindsey’s blog, government agencies such as NASA work under a “negative feedback loop”. Successful projects that go under budget have any money that they don't use taken out of their next budget. Where does that money go? Answer: To fund the projects that went over budget. Thus, success below budget gets punished and failure gets rewarded! We have a system that insures that an excess of money is spent. Not exactly in the best interest of the taxpayer is it? What does the USA need to do with its space program? In the private sector success within a minimum budget is THE driving force or else a profit will not be realized. NASA should focus primarily on its exploratory goals and leave development of all of its vehicles to commercial sources ala the COTS model. NASA needs to get out of the vehicle design and building business and do what it does best; that is, developing new technologies that others can use to create the vehicles that NASA needs for the exciting exploration that they want to do. Guys, I’m a fan of SpaceVidCast, but I think there’s a little too much optimism vis-à-vis Ares I and Ares V. You seem sure that these vehicles are going to get developed. I don’t think so. A large selling point of going with “the stick” was to save money by utilizing existing shuttle technology, but the vehicle has been changed so much that there are few common parts between the original shuttle solid fuel booster and Ares I. They’ve even had to add weight in the form of anti-vibration mechanisms that would not need to be as heavy and robust on a liquid fueled booster. To counter the added weight they’ve now added another booster segment! All of this stuff is causing the project to go way over budget. They are even considering cutting crew capacity in the spacecraft to cut costs incurred by the added weight. They might as well have developed a new vehicle starting with a blank sheet of paper! This turkey is going to be tweaked into oblivion.

In regard to developing a new heavy-lift vehicle in the Saturn V class. The only reason why NASA was able to afford development of such a vehicle in the 60s was a virtually unlimited budget due to the Cold War. That’s not the case this time around.

As I have mentioned on Clark Lindsey’s blog, government agencies such as NASA work under a “negative feedback loop”. Successful projects that go under budget have any money that they don’t use taken out of their next budget. Where does that money go? Answer: To fund the projects that went over budget. Thus, success below budget gets punished and failure gets rewarded! We have a system that insures that an excess of money is spent. Not exactly in the best interest of the taxpayer is it?

What does the USA need to do with its space program? In the private sector success within a minimum budget is THE driving force or else a profit will not be realized. NASA should focus primarily on its exploratory goals and leave development of all of its vehicles to commercial sources ala the COTS model. NASA needs to get out of the vehicle design and building business and do what it does best; that is, developing new technologies that others can use to create the vehicles that NASA needs for the exciting exploration that they want to do.

]]> By: Bencredible http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/#comment-227 Bencredible Sat, 06 Dec 2008 05:01:34 +0000 http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=593#comment-227 Gonz, you bring up a good point, but I think it is possible to be educational and entertaining... Edutainment. Something fun, worth the money and something that helps make everyone feel like they are getting their money out of NASA. But you certainly bring up things to think about! Gonz, you bring up a good point, but I think it is possible to be educational and entertaining… Edutainment. Something fun, worth the money and something that helps make everyone feel like they are getting their money out of NASA. But you certainly bring up things to think about!

]]> By: Gonz http://www.spacevidcast.com/2008/12/05/iss-mars-and-space-in-the-palm-of-our-hand-or-just-out-of-reach-episode-032/#comment-226 Gonz Sat, 06 Dec 2008 01:00:10 +0000 http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=593#comment-226 Also, http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Space/Story?id=6358924&page=1 for the article on "NASA Faces Public Relations Quandary: How to Hold Attention of Preoccupied Earthlings" Also, http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Space/Story?id=6358924&page=1 for the article on
“NASA Faces Public Relations Quandary: How to Hold Attention of Preoccupied Earthlings”

]]>