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	<title>Comments on: Jupiter DIRECT</title>
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	<link>http://www.spacevidcast.com/2009/04/28/jupiter-direct/</link>
	<description>Making Space Commonplace</description>
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		<title>By: Tex</title>
		<link>http://www.spacevidcast.com/2009/04/28/jupiter-direct/#comment-557</link>
		<dc:creator>Tex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 05:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=1492#comment-557</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m curious.  Since both Ares and Jupiter involve liquid fueled engines, why not go back to the Saturn series?  Saturns 2 and 4 (each # refers to the number of F-1 engines) should be able to accomplish everything that either Ares or Jupiter would.&lt;br&gt;Why has the F-1 engine been replaced by smaller but more complicated engines?&lt;br&gt;However, the real question should be: does anyone remember how to build Saturns?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m curious.  Since both Ares and Jupiter involve liquid fueled engines, why not go back to the Saturn series?  Saturns 2 and 4 (each # refers to the number of F-1 engines) should be able to accomplish everything that either Ares or Jupiter would.<br />Why has the F-1 engine been replaced by smaller but more complicated engines?<br />However, the real question should be: does anyone remember how to build Saturns?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike DeMarco</title>
		<link>http://www.spacevidcast.com/2009/04/28/jupiter-direct/#comment-556</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike DeMarco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=1492#comment-556</guid>
		<description>I almost agree with Tex.  But, why not impliment Jupiter, and supliment it with Ares I ?  Jupiter 130 (with its heavy-Orion and payload capability) is needed badly for ISS, Hubble-repair, etc. missions, and Ares I can be developed secondarily as an additional cost-saving measure for quick ISS access at a later date.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I almost agree with Tex.  But, why not impliment Jupiter, and supliment it with Ares I ?  Jupiter 130 (with its heavy-Orion and payload capability) is needed badly for ISS, Hubble-repair, etc. missions, and Ares I can be developed secondarily as an additional cost-saving measure for quick ISS access at a later date.</p>
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		<title>By: Tex</title>
		<link>http://www.spacevidcast.com/2009/04/28/jupiter-direct/#comment-555</link>
		<dc:creator>Tex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=1492#comment-555</guid>
		<description>There is something to be said in favor of Ares 1.  It seems to be a simple
vehicle that requires less launch preparation than any other rocket
carrying people.  Although there probably won&#039;t be many (if any) occasions
to send up 6 astronauts without any cargo on board, it seems quite appealing to have a simple 2 stage 2 engine vehicle in the inventory that
uses a single recoverable solid fueled engine as its first stage.  Keep
Ares l and supplement it with Jupiter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is something to be said in favor of Ares 1.  It seems to be a simple<br />
vehicle that requires less launch preparation than any other rocket<br />
carrying people.  Although there probably won&#8217;t be many (if any) occasions<br />
to send up 6 astronauts without any cargo on board, it seems quite appealing to have a simple 2 stage 2 engine vehicle in the inventory that<br />
uses a single recoverable solid fueled engine as its first stage.  Keep<br />
Ares l and supplement it with Jupiter.</p>
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		<title>By: Jose Reis</title>
		<link>http://www.spacevidcast.com/2009/04/28/jupiter-direct/#comment-554</link>
		<dc:creator>Jose Reis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=1492#comment-554</guid>
		<description>This a simple, clean and easy to adapt desing. It&#039;s based on engines and boosters of the proven Shuttle, why start on something new when there is no guarantee that it will work. We all know when the russian rocket first desing (mid-1950s) and they still use it!

I didn&#039;t know about this project until today and I have to say that it does look a lot smarter and cost saving than Ares.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This a simple, clean and easy to adapt desing. It&#8217;s based on engines and boosters of the proven Shuttle, why start on something new when there is no guarantee that it will work. We all know when the russian rocket first desing (mid-1950s) and they still use it!</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t know about this project until today and I have to say that it does look a lot smarter and cost saving than Ares.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Raymond</title>
		<link>http://www.spacevidcast.com/2009/04/28/jupiter-direct/#comment-553</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Raymond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=1492#comment-553</guid>
		<description>At the end of the podcast, the cohost talks about how returning to rockets from the shuttle feels like a step backwards. There&#039;s two problems with this argument.

First, Direct 3.0 Jupiter is not intended to perform the same missions as the Shuttle. The Shuttle as really only suited for simple LEO missions, such as ISS missions. Direct 3.0 Jupiter, by contrast, is primarily targeted for heavy lift to LEO and missions outside Earth orbit. In other words, Direct 3.0 isn&#039;t replacing the Shuttle, EELV is. That&#039;s true even for Constellation, because Ares I is crew-only and is likely to be canceled in favor of EELV (or rockets of a similar class) anyways.

Second, regardless of how it &quot;feels&quot;, the reality of the shuttle never lived up to the dream. It was never fully reusable, and you could never turn a shuttle around with any real speed. Two Delta IV Heavy rockets can lift nearly the same amount of cargo and the same number of crew (in an Orion capsule) as one Shuttle, and you don&#039;t have the enormous transport costs involved in getting the Shuttle back to KSC.

I love the Shuttle, and I think someday we&#039;ll return to it like we&#039;re currently trying to return to the moon now. However, until we can build a true spaceplane that can takeoff unaided into space, land back on earth and take off again in a matter of days or even hours, shuttles just aren&#039;t practical. It may not be sexy, but it&#039;s the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the end of the podcast, the cohost talks about how returning to rockets from the shuttle feels like a step backwards. There&#8217;s two problems with this argument.</p>
<p>First, Direct 3.0 Jupiter is not intended to perform the same missions as the Shuttle. The Shuttle as really only suited for simple LEO missions, such as ISS missions. Direct 3.0 Jupiter, by contrast, is primarily targeted for heavy lift to LEO and missions outside Earth orbit. In other words, Direct 3.0 isn&#8217;t replacing the Shuttle, EELV is. That&#8217;s true even for Constellation, because Ares I is crew-only and is likely to be canceled in favor of EELV (or rockets of a similar class) anyways.</p>
<p>Second, regardless of how it &#8220;feels&#8221;, the reality of the shuttle never lived up to the dream. It was never fully reusable, and you could never turn a shuttle around with any real speed. Two Delta IV Heavy rockets can lift nearly the same amount of cargo and the same number of crew (in an Orion capsule) as one Shuttle, and you don&#8217;t have the enormous transport costs involved in getting the Shuttle back to KSC.</p>
<p>I love the Shuttle, and I think someday we&#8217;ll return to it like we&#8217;re currently trying to return to the moon now. However, until we can build a true spaceplane that can takeoff unaided into space, land back on earth and take off again in a matter of days or even hours, shuttles just aren&#8217;t practical. It may not be sexy, but it&#8217;s the truth.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.spacevidcast.com/2009/04/28/jupiter-direct/#comment-552</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=1492#comment-552</guid>
		<description>As one of the DIRECT spokesmen, I would have liked a chance to field a few of those questions myself! :)

If you would like a future interview, drop me a line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one of the DIRECT spokesmen, I would have liked a chance to field a few of those questions myself! <img src='http://www.spacevidcast.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>If you would like a future interview, drop me a line.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeph</title>
		<link>http://www.spacevidcast.com/2009/04/28/jupiter-direct/#comment-551</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=1492#comment-551</guid>
		<description>Thanks mark. I did fail to mention those excellent points in this podcast, but I touched on a few of them in the previous one. I have nothing but respect for the DIRECT guys!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks mark. I did fail to mention those excellent points in this podcast, but I touched on a few of them in the previous one. I have nothing but respect for the DIRECT guys!!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark S.</title>
		<link>http://www.spacevidcast.com/2009/04/28/jupiter-direct/#comment-550</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 20:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=1492#comment-550</guid>
		<description>I just finished listening to this podcast.  While I think Jeph did alright, he didn&#039;t hit the main advantage of DIRECT over ARES.  Namely, that DIRECT develops a single common core booster and flies it in two different configurations.  The Jupiter-130 is the single stage version shown in the graphic, and the Jupiter-246 is the exact same core with an upper stage added for additional capacity.  Jupiter uses the same tooling and production lines as the Space Shuttle for the core stage, with a new line for building the upper stage when the Lunar phase starts.

ARES, on the other hand, develops two completely different launchers that have almost nothing in common with each other, or with Shuttle.  There will be two separate development efforts, two production lines, two sets of tooling and expertise, two different high-bay configurations in the VAB, two different mobile launch pads, two different launch towers, etc etc.  Needless to say, all that duplication of effort costs tons of money and time.

The Jupiter cores are identical and can be interchanged as needed.  The J-130 flies with three SSMEs, and the J-246 launches with four.  Jupiter has much more in common with Shuttle, and does not require any engine development at all.  The boosters are identical to the Shuttle, the core tank is closely derived from the Shuttle ET, the main engines are SSMEs, and LEO missions do not require an upper stage at all.  In fact, the J-130 can launch 40 additional metric tons to LEO, with a fully functional six-crew Orion.

The J-246 adds an upper stage with six RL10B2 engines borrowed from Centaur, which gives it the ability to lift 110 metric tons to LEO.  The DIRECT plan calls for two J-246 launches for Lunar missions, with a combined capacity of 220 metric tons.  ARES, on the other hand, is planned to use an Ares-I and an Ares-V for Lunar missions, with a combined capacity of 218 metric tons to LEO, so they are very comparable.

And that&#039;s not even taking into consideration all of the problems that the ARES development teams have been having!  Three years in and Ares-I hasn&#039;t even completed its PDR yet.  We&#039;re still waiting on a &quot;delta&quot; PDR to take into account the changes made to handle the Thrust Oscillation problem.  And Ares-V is still very much in the &quot;paper rocket&quot; stage.  NASA&#039;s specifications for Ares-V simply list what it will be required to lift in order to fulfill its mission.  They don&#039;t really have a good handle on how to actually make it work.

This post is already too long, please go to www.directlauncher.com for more details.

Thanks,
Mark S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just finished listening to this podcast.  While I think Jeph did alright, he didn&#8217;t hit the main advantage of DIRECT over ARES.  Namely, that DIRECT develops a single common core booster and flies it in two different configurations.  The Jupiter-130 is the single stage version shown in the graphic, and the Jupiter-246 is the exact same core with an upper stage added for additional capacity.  Jupiter uses the same tooling and production lines as the Space Shuttle for the core stage, with a new line for building the upper stage when the Lunar phase starts.</p>
<p>ARES, on the other hand, develops two completely different launchers that have almost nothing in common with each other, or with Shuttle.  There will be two separate development efforts, two production lines, two sets of tooling and expertise, two different high-bay configurations in the VAB, two different mobile launch pads, two different launch towers, etc etc.  Needless to say, all that duplication of effort costs tons of money and time.</p>
<p>The Jupiter cores are identical and can be interchanged as needed.  The J-130 flies with three SSMEs, and the J-246 launches with four.  Jupiter has much more in common with Shuttle, and does not require any engine development at all.  The boosters are identical to the Shuttle, the core tank is closely derived from the Shuttle ET, the main engines are SSMEs, and LEO missions do not require an upper stage at all.  In fact, the J-130 can launch 40 additional metric tons to LEO, with a fully functional six-crew Orion.</p>
<p>The J-246 adds an upper stage with six RL10B2 engines borrowed from Centaur, which gives it the ability to lift 110 metric tons to LEO.  The DIRECT plan calls for two J-246 launches for Lunar missions, with a combined capacity of 220 metric tons.  ARES, on the other hand, is planned to use an Ares-I and an Ares-V for Lunar missions, with a combined capacity of 218 metric tons to LEO, so they are very comparable.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s not even taking into consideration all of the problems that the ARES development teams have been having!  Three years in and Ares-I hasn&#8217;t even completed its PDR yet.  We&#8217;re still waiting on a &#8220;delta&#8221; PDR to take into account the changes made to handle the Thrust Oscillation problem.  And Ares-V is still very much in the &#8220;paper rocket&#8221; stage.  NASA&#8217;s specifications for Ares-V simply list what it will be required to lift in order to fulfill its mission.  They don&#8217;t really have a good handle on how to actually make it work.</p>
<p>This post is already too long, please go to <a href="http://www.directlauncher.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.directlauncher.com</a> for more details.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Mark S.</p>
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		<title>By: R. Weingarten</title>
		<link>http://www.spacevidcast.com/2009/04/28/jupiter-direct/#comment-549</link>
		<dc:creator>R. Weingarten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 20:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacevidcast.com/?p=1492#comment-549</guid>
		<description>Canceel Aeres I, go ahead with Jupiter Direct 120, and put Jupiter 232 &amp;
Aeres V on the back burner but do not cancel.  I don&#039;t believe either of
the latter two vehicles are necessary now because I don&#039;t believe the
U.S. will seriously consider going back to the moon and even less likely going to Mars until we believe China is trying to beat us there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Canceel Aeres I, go ahead with Jupiter Direct 120, and put Jupiter 232 &amp;<br />
Aeres V on the back burner but do not cancel.  I don&#8217;t believe either of<br />
the latter two vehicles are necessary now because I don&#8217;t believe the<br />
U.S. will seriously consider going back to the moon and even less likely going to Mars until we believe China is trying to beat us there.</p>
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